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Tim responded to the Creationism paper:

hey guys,
sorry, i’m not a good blogger.

i’ll weigh in with Siamang here – he has the most problems with my paper.

let me say again – i did not ever intend for this paper to be a web discussion. it was a project i did for my own church. Yes, the 20 teachers were all my kids teachers – 3 kids + multiple teachers along the way.
it’s on the web only because i made it available to the people at church (it’s cheaper than printing a bunch of copies).
i’m not trying to promote it as a document for the purpose of furthering ID.

Yes, Siamang – i did read the article in NG. it’s what really made me want to put the cover on there. the article was pathetic. i don’t have a copy of it any more, but it was in my memory just a 4 page article with mostly pictures. It seemed to me that if NG wanted to put up a defense of evolution, they did a poor job. but i do agree that defense was their intent.

lets see – nice shot at the “doubt if they still have heard a decent argument for anything but naturalism.”
got my science education on the internet – $25 for a degree in anything i wanted.

Quote mining. Lying. Lazy.

The quotes in question are really minor for me. i did quote them from sources i thought i could trust. i don’t have the energy to decide whether you are right or they are – so i’ll take them off. not important. if they were misquoted, my bad.

I did Google the Second law of the thermowhatchacalit (too big a word for me)

Here is Wilkipedia’s explanation:
“In a general sense, the Second Law says that the differences between systems in contact with each other tend to even out. Pressure differences, density differences, and particularly temperature differences, all tend to equalize if given the opportunity. This means that an isolated system will eventually come to have a uniform temperature. A thermodynamic engine is an engine that provides useful work from the difference in temperature of two bodies. Since any thermodynamic engine requires such a temperature difference, it follows that no useful work can be derived from an isolated system in equilibrium, there must always be energy fed from the outside”.

i’m sure i oversimplified the case in my dumb document, but i just see no place in our world where systems left to themselves ever get better without help from the outside.

however – to be fair – Wilkepedia goes on to say; “It is occasionally claimed that the Second Law is incompatible with autonomous self-organisation, or even the coming into existence of complex systems. The entry self-organisation explains how this claim is a misconception. (I read that but couldn’t understand it; man this science junk is hard).

so i’ll take that out too.

and yes, Cautious- i know that the CAtholic church believes a lot of things about a lot of things. and i agree with them on some and disagree on some others.
but again – i’m not saying i know which version of Genesis is the right one, or if one or the other is allegory.
i don’t know if humans are really old, or young. i don’t know whether the earth is young or old. i was just fascinated by the possibilities for a young earth.

it really doesn’t matter to me either way. we have pastor’s on staff who believe both ways on the issue. I have great friends who believe God started the Big BAng and that was it. they can still be Christians.

(by the way we have just under a billion members -but it’s in our 5 year plan) WORLD DOMINATION FOR PARKVIEW\FIELD\WHATEVER.

which leads me to my final comment because i need to get the pizza ordered.

i’m tired of arguing this subject. one more time, i wrote this paper to open the minds of my kids teachers to the possibilities of creationism. i may have misquoted, i may have oversimplified – i didn’t take the time i would have if i’d planned on it being the only discussion on an athiest websight.

i feel like this thing is taking us away from the larger discussion.

Siamang says, “The real God, if He’s really out there, wrote the whole universe. Don’t fear it.” seriously, i couldn’t fear it any less! i want us all to study the crud out of the universe. because every time we do – more people have the opportunity to see the God who made it.

but this will mean – ladies and gentlemen – that you have to open yourselves to the possibility of the supernatural.

I’m very cool with Anthony Flew’s “God of the GAps” as a start. but that still means “supernatural.”

The paper will be off your web – shortly. i apologize for taking up the space – i thought that’s why Al Gore made it so BIG.

Let’s go back to talking about God.


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